Ayodele
Joseph Oritsegbubemi Oritsejafor, fondly called Papa Ayo Oritsejafor by many of
his numerous admirers is the founding and Senior Pastor of Word of Life Bible
Church, located in Warri, Nigeria. He became the national president of the
Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) on the 7TH February 2005, a position he held for five
years.. He was elected President of CAN, Christian Association of Nigeria. As a result of this, he became the first
Pentecostal leader to hold the two positions simultaneously. He is married to Hellen
Oritsejafor and they are blessed with many children in the Lord. In this
interview, he speaks about the history of the Itsekiri people and other topics:
·
what
would you say is unique about the Itsekiri people of Warri kingdom?
First of all, it is very important to
establish the fact that Christianity started in Nigeria in Warri kingdom. It is
what the average Itsekiri man or woman knows but they don’t talk about it. One
of the reasons they don’t talk about it is a lack of spirituality. The first
church that was built in Nigeria was not in Abeokuta, Badagry or anywhere. It
was built here in the 16th century. The ruins of it are still here.
The first
Christian missionary that came here was the Roman Catholic. In fact, the first
contact with a white man was here. The Itsekiri people are the first contact
with the white man in Nigeria.
By the way,
the second thing that many people in Itsekiri may not elaborate on is that Itsekiri is Yoruba. The Itsekiri language is a dialect of the Yoruba language.
Itsekiri people migrated from Yorubaland. Some of them migrated directly from
Ife. Some migrated from the riverine
areas of Ijebu, and some migrated from Ondo.
Some of them especially the ones that migrated from Ife, they migrated
with the Ilaje. The Ilaje stopped at a point but the Itsekiri continued and
they ended up here in Warri.
Now, a few
of them came from Benin Kingdom. The Benin connection came from the palace. The
palace connection is still Yoruba at the end of the day because the first Oba
of Benin was a son of Oduduwa.
The first
Olu of Warri was a first son of the Oba of Benin. That’s the Benin connection.
The Itsekiri, when they moved here, they came with their Ife. The upland Yoruba called it Ifa. We are the
waterside Yoruba. Our people will call the other Yoruba, Iroke. They called the
Oyo people Iroke and other Yoruba Iroke but the Yoruba called them Ara
Oke. This history is very important
because they are dying away. In those
days, the Ife which the mainstream Yoruba will call Ifa was the god of divination. The Ife had told
the Itsekiri people that a prince would come and become their king. Therefore,
they stayed without a king for a very long time, in fact for many years.
They were
waiting for that prince, eventually this prince who was the first son of the
Oba of Benin was a grandson of Oduduwa. He was very proud so he had a lot of
problems with Benin chiefs. They were going to kill him. His father who was the
Oba of Benin, you know he was supposed to be the Oba of Benin after his father,
but for his own protection, his father had to get him out of Benin Kingdom. He
gave him about 70 chiefs. They smuggled him out, put him in a boat and performed all kinds of rituals. They put him in a boat then sailed to Warri.
When he ended up here, remember our own people were waiting for a prince, they
have been waiting for years. When he
arrived, they consulted their Ife again and the Ife says, “This is the prince”.
So, that was how he became the first Olu of Warri. That was how the first Olu
of Warri came about.
In those
days, in the palace, in Warri kingdom, they used to speak Yoruba. The palace
was 100% Yoruba. Don’t forget the Itsekiri language is a dialect of Yoruba land
and therefore a Yoruba language as it is to this day. Benin is not Yoruba;
they are descendants of Oduduwa but the palace is Yoruba.
·
History
says Benin people came from Yoruba land?
That can’t
be disputed. Some people will argue it but I don’t want to get into that, because
that is not the point of discussion. We are discussing Itsekiri. However, it
was the son of Oduduwa that moved to Benin and became king, according to
history. It’s almost like our own history too. I don’t want to get into that
side of it.
In fact,
before the late Ooni of Ife passed away, some years back, they did this their
Ifa and the Ifa lead him to an Itsekiri village, not far from here and gave
details of it and they traced it and came to the village, the village is called
Omadina. I am partially from there myself. The people already knew that they
came from Ife. The people from Ife traced them to the village and got to them
and there was a great re-union.
- ·
I
was told that the Oni of Ife has a permanent chamber in the palace?
Yes, because
we are the same. Chief Obafemi Awolowo’s last outing was here. Shortly before
he died. His last outing was here when the late Olu of Warri was crowned. When
he left here, he went home and passed away.
- ·
Yes,
I read it in his wife’s autobiography that when he wanted to go on the trip, he
complained of being tired. His wife advised him to send people to represent
him. He insisted that he must go there himself.
Yes, He came
himself and it was the last outing after that, he passed. So, the connection was
very strong. The Ooni of Ife came here and the Olu of Warri went there as well.
You see the Itsekiiri made a big mistake by not emphasizing their Yorubaness.
It’s unintentional though, they have down play their Yorubaness. The reason is
because they migrated here and other peoples came and they mixed with them and
they have almost forgotten who they are. They almost lost their identity. They
are many Itsekiri today who don’t even know they are Yoruba. They have been
here so long here, the Itsekiri have unintentionally almost lost their
Yorubaness. They lost their identity when you move to a place and you are
mixing with other people you start losing your identity. To a large extent in
my opinion it as affected them. They needed to highlight that fact and this why
I like what you are doing right now. I was very, very impressed years ago when
Chief Abraham Adesanya who was the head of Afenifere, he knew all this history
and he used to come out strongly in defense of the of the Itsekiiri. I was
really very touched by what he would do and say personally, I don’t play with
my Yorubaness. I am very proud of it.
- ·
Maybe
if you give us a little information about yourself that the public may not
know.
My grandmother was originally from Owoh, from my mother side. My
grandmother from my father side is partly from Ilaje. My wife is from Ado
Ekiti. I was born in Lagos. I was born
along Moloney Street. I am a real Isale Eko boy. I did my elementary school at
Holy Cross. So to a large extent, I am a Lagosian. I have a church funny enough
around Moloney, about 2 blocks from where I was born, where my parents lived,
where I was raised. The church didn’t know when they acquired a property there, so when I
went to preach in that church and because I was very rascally as a young boy,
the very bad boys in that area, once they know that I am around, they will all
come to church. They will gather around me. I am like one of their own. I
always feel right at home. My people will try to drive them, I will say no, no,
no don’t. I was exactly like them. They were certain names they used to call me
then. I see myself as a Lagosian. But later I finally moved back home. I went
to secondary school not in Warri here. I was so messed up in my ways until I gave
my life to Christ. Then I went to study Theology at Baptist seminary at
Ogbomosho. I went back to the west. My father even went to school in Ilesa he
was an old boy of Ilesa Grammar school. I am Yoruba in every way. My mother
also went to school in Abeokuta. Itsekiiri is Yoruba, everything about me is
Yoruba. Let us look at the Itsekiiri
language when you listen you will know that is Yoruba. If you want to say Good
morning, I will say. Iro- Owuro Good afternoon, Ire-Osan Good evening, Ire Ale.
Yes that is
pure Yoruba. It’s just like any Yoruba dialect, just like Ijebu, Egba, Awori,
Ijesha, it’s just different form of Yoruba, just a little deeper than the
general Yoruba we all speak in Lagos.But, we all have our own dialect.
- ·
It
Is just like my people the Awori – they are the original settlers in Lagos. They came
from Ife and migrated to Lagos, some of them went to Ado-Odo, Ota, Sango, they
speak the general Yoruba language but they also have Awori dialect which is
different from other dialects but still Yoruba language.
Yes, Other
Yoruba may not be able to speak it but they will still be able to know and
pick it, that this is Yoruba language. For example, my surname is Oritsejafor.
In the upland Yoruba, you will say Oritsa alright which you call an idol. In
Itsekiri dialect we will say Oritse. Oritse means Oluwa (lord) The Almighty
God. He is not referring to an idol. In most Itsekiri name, you will see
Oritse. My surname is Oritse-jafor. Now if you follow it very well,
oritse-ja-for, je – ka – fo (laughter).
Now you are getting it. It’s a Yoruba word. It means the lord allows us
to speak. When you first hear it, you won’t know it’s a Yoruba word. God has
allowed me to speak, that’s what it simply means. So it’s a Yoruba word. My
name is a Yoruba word.
- ·
Why
is this so important sir?
Yes, it is
very important for the world to know who the Itsekiri are. They are Yoruba. For
example, in the whole of the Niger – Delta, we are the only people that has the
title the Olu of Warri. “Olu” is a Yoruba title. If you are not a Yoruba king,
you can’t answer that kind of title. You will never see another Olu in the
whole of the Niger Delta.
- ·
The
Portuguese have some connection with the Itsekiri as well, can you throw more
light on this sir?
Yes, the
Portuguese were so close to the Itsekiri, so close to the extent that the king
of Portugal who lived in Lisbon, 15th, 16th century ago was so close to the Olu
of Warri. That he asked the Olu to send his son to him. He sent his son to Lisbon
and he lived in the king’s palace. You know the white man looked down on the
black man in those days, the white man felt every black man was inferior to him,
but they didn’t treat the Itsekiri that way. If you read some of the Portuguese
writings about the Itsekiri, they will tell you how well cultured they were.
You will read some things; you will be shocked. Now when the prince got there,
this is where I am going to shock you with this. The first African graduate was
an Itsekiri. He was this prince.
Yes, he went to the university while he was in Lisbon. He was to have
gone to a seminary to become a Catholic priest but he could not handle that
because of women issues. So he had to go to a regular university and he got a
degree. When he finished, when he was coming home, the crown that the Olu of
Warri uses today was made by the king in Lisbon in the 16th century and he put
a cross on it. He made two; one for the king and one for his wife, the Olori.
You the upland Yoruba call it Olori, we call them Olori here too.
He gathered the bishops and they prayed for him. They told him to go and
evangelize his people. He came home, his Portuguese name was Dondomingo. But
his Itsekiri name was Atuwase I, Now Atuwase II just passed. He was the elder
brother of the present Olu. He was my very good friend; we were very close. The
first Atuwase, his Portuguese name was Dondomingo and we have a Dondomingo
school here. It was named after him. The
school is there today to immortalize him. The crown the Olu of Warri is wearing
now, the Olus have been wearing it since the 16th century.
- ·
It
must have been made of Gold?
No, it was
made of precious stones and cross. This shows the connection with Christianity.
When the prince got back and later became the Olu, he came with a Portuguese
wife. He was killed, they didn’t like his Portuguese wife. In the 16th century
that’s why I am telling you that Itsekiri had the first contact with the white
man in Nigeria. He had children with his white wife. You know time has changed
now and they’ve become very dark. For example, that my father’s photograph, you
can see he is not dark skinned like me. My mother was very, dark. Itsekiri
language also have a very strong connection with Portuguese, For example, the
Portuguese called shoes sebatu. That’s what the Itsekiri call it till date. So
there are some words that entered the Itsekiri dialect from there but they
still kept the language, they did not lose it. In the general Yoruba language,
you call rice Iresi, in Itsekiri it is Eroso, which is more Portuguese than Italian.
The word Gold in Itsekiri is called Oro which is of Portuguese and Italian
origin. They have some Italian connection too but Portuguese mostly.
Historically, our people were heavy slave traders. They became middlemen to the white
men, selling slaves. At
a point the Olu of Warri became too powerful for the white man. In fact, one of
the Olu was exiled to Calabar. Chief Nana was exiled to Ghana by the British.
He lived in Kumasi. The
Ghanaian, the Efik and Cross River had some connections with the Itsekiri
because the Olu was exiled there for many years.
- ·
let’s
talk about you now. (laughter)
These are the
many things that fascinates me. It’s an insight into who we are as a people.
- ·
When
did you give your life to Christ?
I gave my
life to Christ in 1972, I had an incredible encounter that changed my whole life.
I stopped drugs, my family couldn’t believe what had happened to me. In fact,
one of my uncles drove from here to Ogbomosho just to see me to be sure. They
called me out of the class one day and they said, your uncle is looking for
you. He used to be a police commissioner. He looked at me and said “is this
you?” He cried and I cried myself. He said “you mean God can do this?” I was
studying theology in Ogbomosho as a changed man. He said “you in a seminary?
Studying Bible? Studying theology, how on earth?” It was just too much for him.
That was a lesson for him that God can change anybody. It taught me something
too. Till today I never give up on anybody, I learnt that in my own life.
If God
didn’t give up on me and was still able to change a man like me, then I don’t
think there is anybody God cannot change. He can change anybody. Sometimes you
read the Bible and you don’t think that those things were things that happened.
You know until you meet people that it actually happens to. I mean it happened
to me. You wouldn’t believe this but some of my friends of those days were shot
by firing squad.
You know in
those days, you must be very young, in the military times, if you are caught in
armed robbery, you are shot by firing squad. The first group that were killed
in Warri here were my friends. That should tell you the kind of life I had
lived as a youngster. God has a plan for me. I can’t ever explain how I escaped
that period. So many times I have ended with Jesus preaching the Bible. And
then became the leader of all Christians in Nigeria from that humble beginning.
It’s hard to comprehend.
When I was
growing up in Lagos, only Carter Bridge was there, we have all kinds of bridge
now. There used to be a place close to the whole Kingsway. We had a place we
called key side. I lived right there with all kinds of people.
Where you
have all those bridges now. There was nothing like that. I am just trying to
tell you how lost I was. I was totally lost. That God will take a man from the
streets and show forth the glory in him, some times when I think about it, it’s
hard for my mind to comprehend but it all happened to me.
- ·
What
are some of the experiences you had in CAN and PFN as president of both
Organizations that you will like to share with us? And how do you think CAN and PFN can be more effective in the society?
There is a
huge problem in Christianity today and it has been there. That problem is
disunity. It’s a huge problem. It has been that way for them not just in
Nigeria. Why? I just can’t explain. Across and around the world, that is what
gave Islam an inroad into so many places. Do you know that Turkey was 100%
Christian? It used to be called Constantinople. Today Christians in Turkey are
0.02. It’s now a Muslim nation and that 0.02 percent are under serious
persecution. It’s horrible. Do you know that Egypt was a Christian nation for
over 1,000 years before Islam got there? In fact, as that time, the Christians
scholars, the most important city for studying scripture was Alexander in
Egypt. It was the center of Christian study in the world at that time the
pharaohs were not Arab. They were African for a thousand years Christianity
thrived. What happened? Division, they were fighting each other, jealous of
each other, all kind of petty squabbles’ and the Arab moved in.
- · When
you were CAN president I actually interviewed a man of God who spent half of
the interview attacking you. It was obvious that he wished he was in your shoes
and was very jealous.
That’s the
problem. It was the problem even before then.
We go on with disunity. I can’t sit here and condemn all Muslims. There
are good people among them. They take advantage of our disunity and they still
take advantage of it till today.
Christians just refuse to come together. This is why it is so difficult
to answer your question, what can be done to make these organizations better
and be more effective and be more productive. The most difficult problem is
disunity. If the church in Nigeria and all over the world can find unity, the
church will become more effective, stronger and much more productive.
You know
that hospital come through the church, schools came through the church. All the
good things of life came through the church. So what happened? What happened in
the church? It Is this, you are working for a way to pull me down and I am
working for ways to pull you down. I am
looking for your fault and you are looking for my faults. So we have no time to
concentrate on doing things that will bring progress.
If we can put aside our differences and come
together we can begin to concentrate on how we can improve the society and our
lives, we can impact this nation much more. We bring in better things and
greater things. One person may be Anglican the other person may be Pentecostal,
who cares? The belief in Jesus that is the issue. If they can remember that
something brings them together, make them one. When Boko Haram was killing
people in the North, they don’t care which denomination you belong to, they
will kill you all the same. They only need to know you are Christian that will
be enough to kill you.
Jesus said,
by this shall all men known that ye are my disciples if ye have love, one for
another. If we don’t practice that we are fake disciples. If we are real disciples,
we will love each other in spite of denominational differences. There is no
perfect human being, there is only one perfect God. He is able to bring two
imperfect people together. We all come to him with our imperfections. I will
always have faults, you will always have fault, but God doesn’t have any
faults. If we can put our eyes on him- and take our eyes from my fault and your
faults, This world will become a paradise for all to live in.
- ·
Do
you think that explains why there are more Muslims in politics than Christians?
Yes, we
betray each other Christian, betray each other in politics. It is easier for
two Muslims to come together and agree even in their differences than it is for
two Christians to come together. We are from a white garment and I am
Pentecostal, because of that we cannot come together. Who cares about that
nonsense?
- ·
I
actually sat under your teaching once at a Cherubim and Seraphim church, AYO NI
O in Lagos. They were having an anniversary and I was one of those journalists
that came to cover it from the Guardian newspaper. I knew that you are actually
practicing what you are teaching.
I have a good
relationship with the C and S movement you have to lift your head above all
that. What is it that makes me a Christian? What makes you a Christian? Jesus
Christ, let us concentrate on him. No denomination will be the same because
they will have their doctrines. You want me to be honest with you, a lot of
these doctrines are manmade. Doctrines do not bring us together, Jesus does.
Fine, this is how you interpret a scripture; stick with it, that’s an internal
thing, but when we come together, the focus should be Jesus. If we can do this
all, Christians will be one and we will speak the same language. This was the
problem I had when I was still the president of CAN when I was president of
PFN, the same problem. If we can do that, the church will become an incredible
organization that will bring so much change and good to this country.
- ·
What
message for young people?
The very
first thing I want to say to the people is to accept Jesus as Lord and personal
saviour as simple as it sounds, it is the foundation of life. It is the rock upon which
that you build everything. Accepting Jesus makes you save. You can think right.
It makes you begin to know what is important and what is not. You will see life
differently. We are a confused people without Christ. A life without Christ is
a life I will not recommend for anybody because I have been there. If you have Jesus,
your core value will be different. It will mean something. You will not be just
being a person but a person of substance. The value you place on yourself is
the value you place on other people then it is in Jesus that makes you valuable.
The next
thing is education, all young people please and please value education.
Education is beyond the degree it exposes you. An educated man that has no job
today is better than an illiterate that has a job. An educated man can create a
job tomorrow. He can accomplish far
more. Apart from God, anything is possible for him but an illiterate oh God!
Illiteracy is a curse; young people should run away. Do everything to be
educated.
- ·
Can
you mention some outstanding testimonies in your ministry?
Before I
went to Ogbomosho, the seminary I first attended was Bible school in Benin city
owned by the late Archbishop Benson Idahosa. While I was there we need to go on
evangelism. There was a day we went to a house and I saw people crying. A child
has died. I was a very young Christian and I took the word of God literarily,
not just seriously. I so believed it that I told everyone to leave. I took the
child in my hand and began to pray and call on God and to my surprise, after about
35 minutes the boy came back to life.
The mother
had left the child with the grandmother, her own mother. I don’t know if the
woman is late now because she followed me to church that day. Everybody in that
area went to church with me that day and they all became Christians that day. I
will never forget that. It is an outstanding testimony which I will never
forget apart from my own salvation.
